24. Truth and Actuality

In 1975, Krishnamurti and David Bohm met twelve times to discuss the relationship between truth and reality. At Bohm's suggestion, they concluded that there are two types of reality.

They defined the movement conceived and created by thought as 'reality', and what actually is and happens as 'actuality'.

The conversations were intended for publication as a book, but Mary Lutyens prevented this from happening. Instead, she selected three conversations for the 1977 book Truth and Actuality.

Five conversations were published in 1999 in The Limits of Thought, and the entire series was not released on CD until 2013.

Illusions Are Real

The first meeting explores the relationship between consciousness, reality, and truth. Are these three eternally separate, or are they all mere projections of thought? Would there be a reality if we did not think, and what would it be like? Can truth ever be perceived, and what is required for this to happen?

The first step is to define the key concepts. Although definitions may sound boring and abstract, they actually lay the foundation for discussions. Without this foundation, the rest will lack something essential.

Consciousness is defined as consisting of its content, including thoughts, feelings, desires, will and reactions.

Reality encompasses everything we can think of and are conscious of, including entities that exist independently of thought, such as nature, the stars, and the cosmos. Reality is anything that thought reflects upon or projects, but truth goes beyond it, because reality is always conditioned. Illusions are real, but they are not true.

For instance, Christ is real in the minds of people who believe in him, but not to those who have never heard of him. Similarly, an image is also real in the sense that it affects how people act; it is factual but not ultimately true, because it is just a thought.

Our reality may be either sensible, rational, logical, healthy and wise, or it may be irrational, causing us and others pain and confusion. Usually, it is both.

Therefore, it is important, yet challenging, to understand emotionally that not everything we think is true or real. It is the thought-made reality that causes our problems – in fact, it causes all of them.

If we want a healthy mind, we must therefore be able to distinguish between reality and truth. The content of our consciousness may or may not have a counterpart in reality. According to Bohm, it is more accurate to say that our thoughts are either correct or incorrect. If a counterpart exists in reality, the thought is correct.

Thoughts Have a Right Place

Krishnamurti emphasises the difference between a thought and its object. A description is never the same as the thing being described.

Thoughts and words are needed to express things. Everything would be fine if thoughts stayed in their place, but insidiously they become our equivalent of truth.

When we perceive something as true, we no longer consider it to be a thought, but rather as something that exists independently of thought.

Bohm gives an example. Imagine walking on a dark road and seeing something that may or may not be real. If you touch it and it reacts, it becomes clear that it is something real. However, without touching it, however, you can consider it an illusion.

The image of reality in our brain is an inaccurate and delusional model of the world. Considering it as truth would be amusing if it did not have such serious consequences for our lives.

Therefore, reality is anything that thought either reflects or projects; it has nothing to do with truth. The two are eternally separate. We can never come from reality to truth. The image that our brain creates from reality is vague and illusory, an inferior model of the real world. Considering this as truth would be amusing if it did not have such a serious impact on our lives.

Thought is a force that leaves unfortunate traces when it roams in reality.

Thought creates the wallpaper; it is real, not imagined. If you hit me, that is also very real. However, all reality is determined by conditions, and everything in our reality influences everything else, either directly or indirectly. Therefore, reality can be seen as a movement of thought.

As we perceive everything through the filter of our own experiences and background, our reality can never be totally independent of us. A tree has a relatively independent existence, but it is our consciousness that gives it a meaning by abstracting it.

Actuality Is Not an Opinion

The actual world is not an opinion. Bohm suggests using the word actuality to describe everything that is happening, and reality to describe everything produced and conditioned by thought.

If a person is sane and healthy, her thoughts and consciousness are true and will accurately reflect what is actually happening in the world. However, her reality is very different from that of someone who is irrational, neurotic, or perhaps insane.

Sane and insane people do not use the same kind of energy. The vitality of the ego comes from contradictions. It creates its own energy. When we have opposing desires, we fight to fulfil them. We usually don't realise why we have to do something; we just keep doing it.

We must realise that we cannot come from reality to truth when the energy of truth is operating. This is where meditation comes in. Although it is generally seen as moving from one reality to another, to K meditation is about seeing the world as it is.

At the end of the first discussion, K is so inspired that he suggests they meet every weekend.

Let the Facts Act

The second meeting will focus on living the truth. The action of reality must be entirely different from the action of truth, which is unrelated to the past and beyond time.

We know action based on memory and hope, but can we ever live in the present? That means living with what is and allowing the truth to operate.

That is only possible if we perceive reality as it actually is and let the facts act.

There must be no interpretation of events, and no division between the observer and the observed – one part of reality watching the other part. If we cannot find this indivisible action, we will always be trapped in time, live in conflict and sorrow.

Seeing actuality is not possible without total freedom. And seeing is acting; we act as we perceive the world. Therefore, we cannot see first and then act.

Seeing the truth can only take place in nothingness, which is pure energy. In nothingness, there are no things. It is "no-thing-ness". Reality is some-thing; nothingness is no-thing.

"The action of nothingness, which is intelligence in the field of reality, operates in reality without distortion", as K puts it.

Reject the False

To be free, we must not be concerned with truth, but focus on reality and its distortions. We don't know the truth. All we know is consciousness, which is filled with knowledge and experiences. Consciousness is incapable of seeing anything as it is because it is absorbed in itself.

Instead of seeking truth, we must recognise that we distort things all the time and resist facts. If we recognise this and are not frightened, we will have the energy to reject the false.

There is so much distorted content in our consciousness that one life is not enough to clear it all. Luckily, there is a shortcut.

If we feel separate from other people or from nature, we will not have compassion. When our thoughts divide the world into mine and not mine, there is duality and love cannot live.

When there is the perception of the whole, we love other people without excluding anyone. There is no dependency or attempt to possess the person we love.

For truth to be, there must be space in the mind. Space is the freedom of nothingness, because as soon as there is a thing, the mind is not free.

There is no space in a mind filled with thoughts. The mind is controlled by the environment and is occupied, filled with problems that distort it. Thoughts lacking clarity distort perception.

Thoughts contain two factors: reaction and reflection. Immediate reactions make things feel very real. Thoughts usually react so fast that we do not realise they are thoughts reflecting things. What we know influences what we see, and we lose track of the reflection, which then becomes an illusion.

When our mind discards all distortions, thoughts only serve a rational function, and something totally different begins to happen.

The Drum Vibrates to Emptiness

Insight is the topic of the third session. How does insight take place? What is the quality of the mind into which thought does not enter?

Ordinary thinking is dominated by words, which create images that in turn create more words. Words carry feelings, and these feelings cause us to act or prevent us from acting.

Bohm proposes that there might also be non-verbal thinking, but K opposes this. To him, thinking is nothing but response of memory.

Bohm does not give up. He distinguishes two ways of using words and images. The first is a thought-based process in which a word produces an associated image. Together, they produce action.

In the other kind of thinking, words are only used to communicate insight or the data leading to it. Recalling K's simile of a drum vibrating from the emptiness within, Bohm concedes that the term 'non-verbal' is somewhat misleading.

K acknowledges that thought is of a different quality when used to express the insight than when operating on its own.

However, they both agree, that insight itself can never be a process of organised thought. Thought can communicate not only the insight, but also some of the data that leads us to have an insight.

According to Bohm, thought seems to reject insight in some indirect way. Could any action overcome this rejection? Thought alone cannot do it, but intense insight might. Seeing something with passion could break the pattern of thought.

An Empty House

Many people expect a path to be marked out for them in the field of reality, but it must be 'an empty house with no inhabitants'.

In our personal reality, we seek security, both physiologically and psychologically. However, there is no such thing as security; nothing – or nobody – is safe in a world where everything fades sooner or later.

When we realise this, we either invent security and permanence out of fear or have an insight into the wholeness of consciousness. K says ambiguously: "In nothingness there is complete security and stability".

This may sound implausible at first, but upon further consideration, we may have insight and recognise the truth in it. Of course, there is no way to prove this, nor any guarantee that it is true. However, insight can bring peace to the restless.

While insight does not take care of our need for physical security, it can change our view of reality, freeing us from a great deal of confusion. If people were not nationalistic, there would be no wars between nations. There would be at least considerably less violence if we had no beliefs or fanatical convictions.

Throughout our life, we fight economically, socially, religiously. If we felt secure inside, we would act more intelligently and harmoniously in the world.

Seeing Is Doing

Session four discusses desire, goodness and beauty.

First, K and Bohm investigate why desire has become such an extraordinarily important issue in our life. Do we desire simply because we are missing something?

Bohm finds an interesting connection between desire and beliefs. He argues that craving or longing for something stems from a sense of lacking something, as does belief, which stems from feeling empty.

"We believe what we desire to believe. The whole story of belief, hope and despair is in desire", Bohm concludes.

We long for both abstract and concrete things. Some are realistic and come true; others are not. Some are self-centred, some more general.

When we see the ugly state of our society, we hope to improve it, although there is no guarantee that we will succeed.

The essential question is, why do we long for something? What is the drive behind our wanting to do something?

K identifies five phases in this process.

Desire usually springs from perception. We see something wonderful. Then comes contact and sensation. We either touch it or form an image of it in our mind.

When thought enters, desire is born. We want to obtain something that exists only in our imagination, and is therefore not real. The final, fifth step is action.

If there is no thought, then action stems directly from perception. In this case, perception itself is an action that does not require desire. The desire for pleasure may be one way of trying to cover up our inner emptiness. This urge may arise because we are unable to recognise the beauty around us. When we don't experience beauty, we have to imagine it.

The essence of beauty, love and goodness can't be created by thought. Thinking can imagine or express them, but not create them.

"When we die to all things thought has created, there is nothingness. I know nothing about it, I can´t even imagine it. The purity of beauty, goodness and truth is in nothingness", says K.

"There is a one-way connection from nothingness to things, not from things to nothingness", K continues.

In nothingness, there is no measurement because there is nothing to measure. Thought operates within the realm of measurement, it cannot perceive nothingness.

Thought must end – or, as K puts it, "die to reality", die to all the things of measurement, of movement and of time. There is an ending without motive. It is not done to get a reward or for any hidden agenda.

While the good, beautiful and correct things are measured in reality, the purity of beauty, goodness and truth exist in nothingness. This is something totally different from my daily relationships with their images.

Crooked Like a Corkscrew

The next session continues with the same theme.

As K puts it, thought is "crooked like a corkscrew" and, because of its divided nature, it causes conflict. Consciousness is in constant movement; it has never found energy that is not contradictory.

Thought may never recognise the futile nature of its own movement. If it did, it would be an intellectual comprehension expressed in words rather than an actual fact perceived. This can be seen both within and outside consciousness. If it is inside, it is thought, which means contradiction; and thoughts are always contradictory.

"Truth is not within the field of consciousness. If it were, it would be your truth, my truth, his truth, not the truth", as K points out.

Whatever we believe in, there is not a single part in our consciousness that is not created by thought. All fragments of our thoughts are related to each other, either directly or indirectly.

Thought can never see itself as a whole. If it thinks it sees, it does not see! The only way to see the whole is for thought to come to an end and stop moving in time. Then, seeing does not happen through thought.

For this to happen, a certain kind of awareness is required. Awareness is much more than focusing on something. In awareness, there is no choice. Attention is 'stretching towards' something more, but it is not thought or memory. Attention leads to absolute nothingness, which is the summation of energy. It is beyond human energy.

Then, quite surprisingly, Bohm asks K: "Have you gone through discovering all this or were you this way all your life?"

"I'm afraid so", K answers, referring to the latter option. "From childhood I was ill, not capable of receiving mentally. Nothing deeply penetrated me", K answers, but quickly adds: "I'm not saying I am unconditioned; it would be silly on my part to say so!"

Bohm then asks how this perception beyond attention comes about. Illness cannot be the answer, because many unhealthy children would not produce this effect.

K thinks that sensitive awareness is required here.

"One must be sensitive not only to one's desires, but to environment and to other people. In that awareness, the movement of thought comes to an end. From that attention there is affection, care and
a sense of deep communication."

But this is not enough. In attention there is the quality of love, communication that is not verbal. And even that is not enough. Consciousness must be empty of its content, and then there is this sense of non-being, of nothingness, as K says, "nothing created by thought, by circumstances, by temperament, imagination, by tendency, capacity".

In this nothingness, there is no movement of thought; however, it has its own movement as energy, which can operate in the field of reality. The movement we know is in time, but this is beyond our imagination.

Goodness has no relationship with thought or to evil. Evil will persist as long as there is thought.

"Could you put it like this, that while thought is going on, it would not be possible to consider a solution of the problems?" Bohm asks.

K is excited: "Exactly. It is a tremendous revelation. That is the beauty of this. I listen and it is revealed, because I have paid attention to you. I am full of this extraordinary statement. I don't know how it will operate. I don't know how I will live. I have seen this thing and it will operate. It will do something; I don't have to do anything. Before I was accustomed to doing something, but now it operates, because truth has its own vitality."

Step Out of Your Stable

In the sixth discussion, the two men talk about unawareness, ignorance, and mistakes as opposed to the idea that truth is total action and free from memory.

Bohm says there are two types of unawareness. The first is the simple failure to be aware because we don't know enough or we are given the wrong information. The analogy of this is a computer that is programmed incorrectly and makes mistakes despite operating according to its set rules.

The second type of unawareness is due to the systematic tendency of thought to suppress awareness. We ignore things because we want to feel comfortable and not disturb our mental equilibrium. We are afraid that everything will go to pieces if we are fully aware of everything. To protect ourselves, we 'stay in our own stable' and don't even want to see.

It is rather difficult to distinguish whether doing something foolish is due to a lack of right information or a subtle form of ignorance.

Truth cannot manifest itself where there is unawareness and ignorance. When truth operates, thought is not present because memory alone is inherently flawed. However, perception is instantaneous, so memory is not necessary. It perceives without the perceiver.

The action of truth must be total. In this state of total integrity, one sees the truth in the false.

Bohm then mentions that he has just read a 'quite interesting' biography of Krishnamurti, the book by Mary Lutyens called The Years of Awakening. It recounts the story of the mental transformation that began in the 1920's, causing a fundamental change in Krishnamurti's perception of reality.

K doubts whether there was one moment of transformation in him. Rather, it was a long process that started in August 1922. Something crucial happened when his brother Nitya died in November 1925.
He did not escape suffering, but "faced the actuality of death, and that freed him from the reality of thought".

Reflecting on his life 50 years later, K says that he was never actually conditioned by the Theosophical beliefs instilled in him; he was merely repeating things he had been told. During the so-called process K suffered long periods of intense pain. He emphasises that this should not be associated with a transformation process in the mind.

This young man discovered something new, and this new something entered human consciousness. Once voiced, others could embrace this newness in their own lives.

A totally new kind of energy was released. It was not the energy of thought. This energy arises when one does not escape suffering by any means. It is the suffering itself that brings about this great energy.

The energy of truth and the energy of reality are two distinct concepts. The former is universal, while the latter is personal.

When talking about these energies, K's body becomes so tense that he has to leave the room. After returning, he explains:

"You see, there is something much more than all this. Would you accept the word mystery? There is something which you cannot talk about. This does not mean that it doesn't exist. When you touch that mystery, things are totally different. Thought can never touch that."

Many people may disagree, but in the world of thought and reality, there is no mystery. Some of us have a desire to experience and create mysteries. Bohm says that the original impulse in science was to delve into the mystery and reveal it. However, this has been diverted, and scientists now think that they can finally explain everything. Yet, the essence of existence is and will always remain unexplained.

Bohm comments: "I think that to a certain extent the ego works on a sort of parody of this mystery, making itself so mysterious."

The sense of mystery has almost gone for many reasons. One reason is our illusion of knowing. We want to understand and explain everything, but this is impossible because thoughts are limited,
yet they are our only instrument of explanation. Nevertheless, we still cherish the idea that we can eventually know everything.

Many of us had a sense of mystery as children, but living in cities, we lose contact with nature and rarely watch the stars at night or explore the depths of the ocean.

Bohm says: "Anything in the field of reality can be explained. We can penetrate more deeply and broadly, but the essence is not explained."

The truth of the mystery makes the mind completely silent. Because the mind is silent, the truth of that mystery is revealed. This total silence opens the door to a completely different dimension.

Meeting the Mystery

Bohm begins the seventh discussion by quoting Einstein, who said that the most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science.

What is the state of mind that can participate in something that is totally mysterious? What is the nature of that participation? What are the necessary things for that to happen?

According to K, the first requirement is to have a highly sensitive body.

The mind must also not be emotional, sentimental or neurotic. It must have a tendency to quick insight and immediate comprehension, and should not be satisfied with mere explanations.

Psychological clarity is also needed. This clarity is especially important when observing the nature of thought. Thought is used to see the mountain, the microphone and the 'me'.

These three things differ in their nature. The mountain is independent of thinking; it is there even when we are not thinking of it. The same applies to the microphone, but unlike the mountain, it is a man-made object, designed and made by thought.

The ego is a third kind of product of thought. Unlike the mountain and the microphone, it would not exist if we did not think about it.

We think that the centre of ours being is an objective reality, something separate and distinct from thought. We have a strong gut feeling that this centre lives and moves in time. The 'me' has been, is now, and will become something else.

It is in this stream of movement that we exist. We attribute our experiences to this centre, hoping for the best while fearing the worst. Thought creates this centre, and also defines and determines it. It sustains the sense of an independent 'me', being trapped by this idea.

Once we have created this centre, we cannot avoid attributing pain and suffering to it. Thought cannot comprehend or be aware of the whole. It may pretend to do so, but the limited can never enter the limitless. The ego lives in a small space and imagines what is outside.

Our tradition is long and unambiguous: the ego has an independent reality. This idea has been handed down to us both verbally and verified through our own verification.

Krishnamurti goes against all odds in saying that this whole idea of ego is absurd and disastrous. He is one of the few who is absolutely convinced of this.

He said that other people would find it easier to understand this after he had this insight. K uses the easy analogy of Columbus discovering America. To Bohm, this is too simplified a picture of how the change in our consciousness happens. It does not necessarily change simply because someone has undergone a change.

The mystery of life is something that cannot be shown or taught to another person. Nobody can make it be true for us. In science it is a different case because we can learn from knowledge. Einstein made a discovery that others can build on.

However, we cannot get the mystery of life from anyone else. We cannot analyse it. If we pick a flower and tear it to pieces, it is no longer a flower. In order to explore the mystery, we must be free of desire, motives, will, suffering, and the whole structure of ego.

Stream Gone Wrong

The eighth discussion begins with a written question from a Bohm's friend, the American psychiatrist David Shainberg. He asks whether thought is fragmented when it is aware of its own fragmentation.

To answer this question, we must first realise that thought is fragmented and merely imitates the thing perceived. It reflects the content of memory, selecting some things while leaving some essential things out. Thought cannot reflect anything as it actually is.

We have given colossal importance to thinking, yet we fail to recognise how mechanical and fundamentally limited it is. In total perception of this, truth is. This perception acts in reality. Thought undergoes a change in this kind of perception. This perception changes the brain cells.

Total perception is a shock to the brain; it is something absolutely new. Thought has no means of dealing with this insight. To avoid this shock, thought has developed various ways to prevent it from happening. It clings desperately to a fixed form, trying to stay in a groove to make itself feel safe. It creates a world of its own, but can never feel safe or satisfied there.

Unfortunately, thought has no reason to suspect that its own creations are not a prime thing in life. It builds an imaginary structure that it calls the ego. This image is the geometric centre of our mental operations, determining everything in our life. We think in terms of the centre and view the world through it.

There is an analogy in physics:

"One of the basic theories in physics has been that the world is made of atoms. Each atom is a centre which is connected to all other atoms. The opposite view is that there is a continuous field and no centre",
as Bohm describes.

Physically, we are forced to function from a centre and act in space and time. Yet, psychologically, there is only an image that pretends to be a centre.

Then we make another mistake. We think that the centre is separate from our thinking. By doing this, we divide consciousness into two: here is the observer, which I call the 'me', and there are all things I observe.

This leads us to make a third mistake. If I think I am separate from others, then they must be separate from me. Consequently, my entire world becomes fragmented and shattered. According to Bohm, we then separate things that are not separate and put together things that are different.

"When something is going wrong in the stream of human thought, we attribute it to somebody, but it is going wrong in thought and it is in everybody. There is no such thing as my thought and your thought."

We usually attribute the 'right' idea to our own centre and the 'wrong' idea to that of others. Consequently, there is no compassion, and we start to fight.

"To see that it is one thought process and you cannot attribute this to a particular person, that is compassion."

Healing the Damaged Brain

Bohm begins the ninth episode by stating that the brain is a material process constituted of matter that has been conditioned over the ages by heredity, tradition, and environment. He says that we have been "conditioned to self-deception that constitutes a subtle kind of brain damage".

This damage is due to our brains being overloaded with thoughts, by the self, by fear, by sorrow, and also by tradition. Damaged brain cells produce distorted thoughts.

According to K, this distortion and damage can be seen very clearly in the old cultures, such as India. Their beliefs are unshakeable. Tradition conditions the brain to adopt a very rigid view of reality.
A similar structure exists in the West, albeit with different specific beliefs.

These beliefs are sustained and nourished by the damaged brain. We don't recognise this damage; instead, we attribute it to something else. We either blame external circumstances or other people. The brain begins to treat thoughts as an independent reality, unaware that it is observing itself.

Can the brain ever recover from this damage and heal itself? Perhaps it can, but for a variety of reasons, this has not yet happened.

Firstly, we are not even interested in this.

Secondly, we don't really see the damage to the brain. It may be that our brains are already toodamaged to be healed. One of the tricks of a damaged brain is to convince us that it cannot be healed, and that nothing can be done socially, morally, or artistically.

We won't know unless we give it a try. If the damage is very severe, perhaps it cannot be healed. However, there may be a part of the brain and consciousness that is untouched by tradition and culture. K is absolutely certain that there is. The damaged brain has no access to the infinite.

"The very listening to that which is beyond thought heals the brain. Out of that there can be a new man and a new society."

The Process Revisited

The next meeting continues with the issue of K´s personal process. Bohm reiterates his view that the analogy of Columbus discovering America is misleading because it suggests that transformation is easy. A better analogy might be that of Newton and Einstein in physics. Newton made discoveries and Einstein built on them, but he also had to reject much of what Newton had proposed.

Krishnamurti says that he does not know what happened to him in the process. After thinking it over, he concludes that he could not be sure about it and does not want to speculate.

According to K's own testimony, the process was still taking place in the 1970s, but only when he was completely relaxed and in a quiet environment. He emphasised that he did nothing to hinder or invite the process. K describes:

"I wake up in the middle of the night meditating. It is a peculiar form of meditation, because it is totally unimaginative, something pre-unmeditated. I can´t imagine such a state. It is something out of the ordinary, without being abnormal."

This process brings with it sensitivity. K says he can read other people's thoughts, but he doesn't want to do that because it is like reading private letters. He has also done a great deal of healing.

In K's process, there was intense pain. Usually, people try to escape and avoid pain, but K did not do this. He stayed with the pain and it was transformed into something else.

Then Bohm asks K about the role of the so-called Masters.

K says that he was a rather vague, moronic, uncertain boy. He was told something and he repeated it like a child who had been told fairy tales. Theosophists made the Masters very materialistic, describing how they lived, what their names were and how they were dressed.

Of course, there is something 'in the air' that we can all feel. Constant killing may leave an imprint on the environment. So is goodness. The atmosphere in an ancient temple is very special.

According to K, theosophists attributed goodness to the Masters and evil to selfish people. While this is a very simplified and misleading view if taken literally, it is not mere speculation.

If we are seeking truth, we must not create stories, but be ready to face reality. If we have had a glimpse of the truth, but try to resist or escape it, that resistance will cause us suffering and will act like a poison or a thorn in the flesh. It will poke us all the time.

What is needed is to stay with the suffering. If we don't escape and simply stay with what is, a miracle will happen. Resisting and escaping will keep us suffering endlessly.

Can Wisdom Be Learnt?

The issues addressed in the eleventh discussion are the difference between wisdom and intelligence, and whether wisdom can be learnt.

Wisdom is only possible when one recognises the limits of thought and acknowledges that it operates within a limited area. By definition, wise is a man who 'is able to make sound judgements', but this is merely an outward manifestation of wisdom.

Without seeing the whole, there can be no wisdom. Interestingly, the word 'wisdom' shares the same root as 'video', meaning 'to see'. Seeing the whole is a precondition for real wisdom.

Many people believe that wisdom comes from accumulating a great deal of knowledge, but Bohm argues quite the opposite: all limits come from thought and knowledge, and they prevent wisdom.

"A thoughtful man is not a wise man, nor is he an intelligent man", K says, meaning something different to what is usually implied by that word.

Wisdom is the ability to respond to every step of seeing, rather than acting from memory or knowledge. Only those who perceive truth can bring order to the world. Truth operating in the brain clears the mind. When it is clear, it can operate in orderly fashion.

Bohm says that seeing the truth dissolves the mist of reality in the brain.

Eliminating Desire

The final session in this series deals with self-delusion. The brain engages in self-deception, when we imagine that we are something that we are not. The root of this is the self-centred mindset that we have adopted.

We act from an imaginary mental entity inside ourselves which actively controls our functions. This image appears to have factual content and a practical function. But why has it become so important to act from this imagined centre?

To answer this, we must understand desire. Desire operates entirely through imagination and fantasy. We seek comfort and consolation in images and symbols in an attempt to feel better.

Desire is the bedrock of the ego. When I desire, I am. Desire seems to be very solid and firm; it is not easily broken. It is a fast and violent process that fills our consciousness.

But is it possible to eliminate desire? It is the ground on which all of our civilisation seems to be based. How are we to explode this tremendous foundation on which the whole society is built?

Our brain cells are wired to desire happiness, to overcome fear, and to pursue what we want. How can a brain that is conditioned to desire, uncondition itself and get rid of desire? What would happen to the brain if there were no desire?

Firstly, it would regain all the energy it has wasted on desire. This would mean there is be no self-deception, striving or achievement. There would be no content in consciousness.

If we achieve this state of having a brain with no desire, what is our relationship to the world of reality? It would profoundly affect us.

As long as there is desire, there is deception and therefore no solution to the problems of society or the individual. A man without desire affects total human consciousness.

The final ten minutes of the twelfth discussion are stunning. K asks how Bohm reacted to his question: "Can the brain be totally without desire?"

"It is hard to remember because that question was put implicitly, but it sort of opens up the brain in some way", Bohm answers dryly.

Such a question is not in our tradition, at least not explicitly. We have tried to control it, but without success. Our mind is in a state where it tries to find its place, but cannot. When seeking ends, the mind is what it is.

K then tells us that the intensity of the movement without desire seems to affect his brain deeply, especially in the evenings and at night. There is something that purifies the brain.

In that state, even a common word such as 'compassion' can have a tremendous vitality and a sense of mystery. It feels timeless, never the same and therefore extraordinary.